All, After pondering on it I think I should apologise for the 'dag nam it' statement - with an explaination. It has become common practice on these forums to quote partial statements often out of context from previous posts. At times it becomes hard to understand whether the quoter actually understands your point of view or is simply being argumentative. Quoting prevoius posts has probably started many flame wars because to the original poster it often comes off negatively. To paraphrase the original poster's statemrnt would be better as then you can get a better idea of the repliers point of view, it shows a greater intellectual versitility and commands the respect of the original poster rather than their distain. with the above in mind, I sincerely apologise for the 'dag nam it' statement. In the future I hope to be able to try 3ds max, maya and lightwave. I can't really givean opinion on any of the three at present as fat as experience goes. I do know from what I've read that lightwave is used more commonly in professional media and is likely the up and comming 3d app. in the meantime I will have to settle for using gmax, amapi and carrara. Gmax can be quite versitile with the right (g)max scripts. I do hope that 3ds and maya will find a way to reduce the cost to the consumeer and that lightwave will continue to hold prices down. This TS + Poser thing sounds good - we'll see. - TJ