to date, this site hasn't been dedicated to 'hard' mediums such as oil painting and/or watercolors. i definitely put traditional photography in that very catagory -- it can and does, exist without the use of computers -- which is where i tend to group it. so in that respect, i suppose i've been guilty as charged of discriminating against traditional media for my votes for the magazine cover. HOWEVER, after reading the thread, and getting beyond the personal grudges and angst, i do see a valid concern. as a result i am going to issue a formal apology and strike the photography clause from the contest rules altogether. as a hobbyist photographer myself, i really do not see ANYTHING wrong with photography, or oils, or acrylics for that matter... and do see that there is a sprinkling of traditional media images, scanned in and posted in the galleries. however, historically speaking, the point of Renderosity has been stuff that deals with computers foremost. and 'stuff' in which the computer is a bit more than just the viewing medium. after reading the thread it occurred to me that you folks are absolutely correct in that the TOS does not preclude any other mediums -- it sais 'graphic artists' which does imply all forms. perhaps there ought to be some other galleries added to Renderosity then? Oil and Watercolor, Acrylic? might this help alter the mindset of the community toward such mediums? it would certainly be an option in an effort to welcome art of all mediums here at Renderosity. and it might have helped me see sooner that i was wrong in my evalution of the various, other mediums. that being said... i did want to point out that the very nature of this particular contest makes this particular discussion moot... since the contest requires that one of the seed images be utilized in some way. being that the seed images are 100% digital, by using them, no matter what you do, your image qualifies -- even if it IS taking a photo of the computer screen which is displaying a seed image and scanning that photo in with NO postwork whatsoever. as far as it being totally lame for the magazine staff to have supplied the seeds -- i am not surprised no one caught the flip side in the rush to throw stones and grind personal axes -- the copyright implications -- asking another artist to donate their work, and then give everyone else the rights to dissect and otherwise mangle it beyond recognition was someplace the magazine team was very uncomfortable going. we felt that asking someone to give up their copyright even for this instance was too much to ask. our original idea was to use the previous 4 covers, and make the theme "On the Shoulders of Our Forefathers" but we felt that asking those previous cover artists would cause a backlash with major flames about how much we disregard and want to "use" the members and create more turmoil. in the end, we felt it safer to obtain the cannon fodder from within, that way there would never be any question or discussion of any disregard for artist copyrights arising as the result of the contest parameters. from that, we migrated toward the contest forum and came up with the seed image idea. as for being a cheap way for us lame artists to get exposure... as one of the founders, and editor in chief, i would have to guess i am getting plenty of cheap exposure without having to have any artwork in the magazine ... kzarah was featured in issue 1 with an article showcasing his amazing work -- it was actually that article which lead to him joining the magazine team -- so he's already had his dose of cheap exposure. and firefly, well, on her behalf i have to say, that's a thoughtless and mean-spirited remark which while aimed at me, ends up affecting her the most. she's a wonderfully generous and caring person who created those textures/patterns with the best intentions and in the spirit of sharing and is most undeserving of your comments. getting back to the cover contest, the spirit of the whole thing is about being creative and finding inspiration in the strangest places. viewed in another way, this is an excersize which can help prepare someone for the commerical market, where an artist often has to work with 'seeds' handed them by the client and incorporate them into the final product. it's about taking something that's not yours, embracing it, and turning it into something which is. finding inspiration in anything. finally, feel free to flame away at me all you like ... i know that every thing we do in a public forum is subject to all kinds of scruitiny and while we do the best we can with what we have in the time constraints given to us, there are things which do get overlooked or not reasoned all the way through. so what seemed like a good idea at the time, may look totally stupid when reviewed later. so, on the issue of the photography rule, let it be duly noted that we were found totally lame and stand humbly corrected. i also wish to remind folks that anyone with ideas for future contests is welcome to suggest them and better still, be proactive in helping set the course by joining the team. thanks for bringing this to our attention. audre