Ok this was a good topic! Thanks for posting it scott ! many good opinions were posted and side topics arouse unfortanetly Im going to lock it down before it heads south any further! feed back on a thread like this at any fourm is a great thing, so i hope you did find something in it of use to you as the poster and to those who offered help thanks ! "I'll never make the mistake of posting in this forum again. So please just let me leave already." As to not posting in the forum anymore scott your input and post are as welcome as anyones I hope that you reconsider Im sure you have alot of positive input to add and there are many in the post that had good intentions! i think irratation sometimes can occur in situations like these anyway thanks to scott and all who contributed to this thread unrelated but i read this just a moment before posting its a great inspiration thought id share ! [IF] If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you But make allowance for their doubting too, If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream--and not make dreams your master, If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much, If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son! --Rudyard Kipling