actually travis thank YOU!!!...great job so far man...keep it up!...you gettin any better? see trav thanx to you i FINALY have almost a complete model that i am actually happy with..and it will be complete soon....i use alot of different porgrams to model with...as well as render and do textures and all that...but i've always loved lightwave and am getting better at it :D the pic is a WIP thanx to yer quadraped tut!...thanx again man! reverend judas p.s. i just wanted to touch on the rendering thread from before...alot of good points were brought up...but being a special effects freak..i happen to know that alot of the film companies have TEAMS...yes TEAMS of programmers that write special software to do what they want it to...so yeah anyway...ciao