Thanks, Merry Christmas to you too Catlin! I still feel like a newbie with Bryce but I am hoping to get a 4 yr degree in computer science so if I can incorporate a 3d program into that it would be a big advantage to know what program to use. From what little I've gathered, Rhino gives a full blown version to students whereas 3D Max does not. Other than those two, I'm not clear on what else exists out there. Ang