I've been active at alt.binaries.3d.poser for a lot longer than I've been active here, and as such, want to add to the comments of my esteemed fellow NGers Miss Nancy, BadCo, and Mint. Legume is almost as "controversial" over there as he is here. The fact that we appreciate him for founding the newsgroup doesn't make us a herd of followers. He was criticized (in a mature and unabusive manner) by one of the most active and longtime members over there. He recently posted an image of Jesus performing fellatio which truly hurt my best friend at that group. Nevertheless, my friend defended his right to post such an image. My point is that the fact that Legume posted an amusing "vote for me" message didn't cause us to run over her en masse and "stuff the ballot box." Not at all. I for one considered voting for him, but the vote was pulled before I could make up my mind. I ended up tossing a vote for someone else in the unofficial poll (which is not a negative judgement of Legume, just a personal aesthetic thing.) "Ballot stuffing" means fraud. What Legume did was campaigning, not fraud. If you find self-promotion distasteful, that's only your opinion. To say that it is unethical is also only an opinion, which I happen to find dubious in a society that lauds self-promotion. I wonder if anyone else here, like me, is active in the "conventional" art world of galleries and museums? If so, you know very well that there are no Art Talent Scouts in this world. While I've found the self-advertising of some of my friends over the years to be a snotty and alienating thing, the fact is, four of those people are now "major" art or graphics world successes, raking in very big bucks for their work, cited as some of the most "important" or influential artists in their fields. I do know some quieter folks who got to the top via talent and motivation alone, but their talent is extraordinary. Legume did nothing wrong. Neither, technically speaking, has the Hot20 woman that some love to hate done anything terribly wrong. I don't like it, I think it's childish to get your buddies from elsewhere to vote you into the Hot20, but oh well, it's not against the rules. Sure, it devalues the Hot20 a little, but look at it this way: Does the best qualified politician always win the election? Of course not. The one with the most votes wins. That's why it's important for individuals not to fall for herd-think. If I can say one thing on behalf of the Poser newsgroup, it's that no matter how much we truly appreciate Legume, we don't fall in line behind ANYONE, not even Creepy Clown. Again, I resent the implication tht Legume's message to the newsgroup caused anyone to cast a vote that they wouldn't have, anyway. Maybe the people who believe that Legume was Renderosity's AOY2K2 should set up a "send Legume to Siggraph" fund. Legume can set up a special bank account or something. Your donation of ten dollars or more might help him achieve the prize that might have been his had things panned out the way you would have preferred. Just an impulsive thought. We'll never know for sure who would have won AOY if it were up to the membership. What if, as I trust, TammyC's explanation were true? No conspiracy, nothing to do with Legume at all. That would mean that a lot of rancor and words had been wasted over nothing more than a speculation.