"Billy, I have seen some of your posts and have to wonder, do you really feel we should all just blindly sit by and take whatever comes from admin?" Spiritbro77 I have to ask you, do you really feel the Administration staff here should all just blindly sit by and take whatever comes from Mosca? Seems to me as if they are. Seems to me they take more than their share of crap from their members and all these continuing posts are proof of that. I have been to different forums where far less is tolerated, I assure you, members here do have a big voice! I have also been enlightened somewhat as to why Mosca seems so determined to have his say, and I do have to give the Mosca due "credit" for being so determined to stick up for his friend Legume here for what he may feel to be some sort of injustice towards Legume due to some past possible grievance. I must ask if the "way" this is being enacted is indeed "proper" though?? Although Mosca's passion for all this is admirable I do wonder if all this could not be resolved with more more private avenues and not so blatantly openly obvious to make the site staff look like a bunch of imcompetent boobs. I would imagine artists to have a very outspoken voice by nature, I would expect that much and I would also take it for granted that the folks that run this place or any other art forum KNOW exactly this and what they are getting themselves in for when they open an artistic community. IF they do NOT, they have no business even trying to run an art site because it would be fatalisticly self destructive indeed! I also don't think staff of any site should be subject to all out open ridicule and abuse from anyone especially when they offer so much of a vast community area with so much potential foundation and wealth to so many here. I do wonder if the folks that run this place are used to this kind of screaming and yelling and so that is why it is tolerated so openly. I read somewhere that this place once had a big huge complaint forum of some kind that was shut down because the members didn't know how to behave or abused it or something like that. I believe this Poppi person has reminisced about this quite often and I have seen several other members bring this up more than once in various threads and sound almost like they lost their best friend when that particular forum was ended. It appears many members seem to regret losing that forum like it had some special attraction here. It's a real shame I have come so late onto all this because I would have enjoyed seeing something so vital to the members as this Complaint forum with first hand experience. If this stuff happening here is just a small example of what used to go on there, I can just imagine what a profound headache the staff must have endured; unfortunatly it also seems no one here has learned anything from the loss of this so called Complaint forum. It may explain why the members here are so cocky and full of injective attitude though. If this forum has had a more leniant time during the past and condoned so much for the sake of art, one then would understand the open rabble fests. It would indeed take time and consistent re-learning to establish conformity and teamwork, especially among so many diverse and emotionally charged creative folks; and when you have a few boisterous folks practicing their soprano lessons with every opportunity such as this, it makes restructuring even more difficult. I believe I understand this more now. It may actually have nothing at all to really do with Legume, but then again it may; and if it does, then Legume seems to be an unfortunate person caught up in all this somehow due to his outspoken art, or this past greivance Mosca is playing on, or Legume might even be being used as a catylist either by the members or the staff, (sheer speculation on my part), which would then be unfair to Legume, yes. The staff here have said that Legume has nothing to do with this, but Mosca mainatins it does, a duel of sorts? I really don't think it has anything to do with Mosca directly, except I thin Mosca certainly thinks it does, and I won't try to tell him otherwise, I do think amidst trying to speak for his friend Legume Mosca also just likes the attention he is getting too. I am starting to see that I have come onto this place just as there seems to be some kind of forum evolution of sorts, that would explain a lot of the dissention and almost near rioting at the smallest drop of a pin here; it does take so little to cause a ruckus and everyone seems so edgy and touchy even at the most spiritual time of year. I know there is also much worse forum type places around on the internet, mostly gaming sites full of snot nosed kids that don't know any better and so they are allowed to run rampant and destroy one another, those forums are great fun for sport and a great timewaster with really no substance and nothing as far as professional quality and business fortune ventures which is what these artistic places are seemingly about upon onset. One would expect a certain clientele here that would be more inclined to have structure and class and above all as much respect "for" this place as they would expect "from" this place. Right now this art forum seems a little member self gratuitous, almost like many folks here somehow got really spoiled over time and now scream "MOMMA" because they have to grow up and don't like the rules that come with that prospect. My apologies if this sounds fragilistic, I suppose this is an overall viewpoint from a newer member that has been told several times already to almost "bud out" of all this. On one hand this place is so "friendly" with creativity and community spirit and even commercialistic attraction like that of a huge family store with a welcoming committee galore. On another aspect there is almost a very dark side to this forum that shadows itself readily whenever stuff like this happens, and one such as me almost feels as if I am being ogled and watched suspiciously as I am told I am welcome and to feel at home,....."Oh, but come in fine sir, but do not touch anything or even stand too long in one place and above all keep very quiet and out of site and mind amidst the noise here because we don't like strange distractions or interruptions."