Well.... everyone has their own opinion. :) I've been a Vue user since v3.0 back in the summer of 2000. My boss wanted to sew together real images of our sky backdrops to create a cylindrical panorama for animation. I bought Vue 3 on my own and did some sky panoramas and the images blew away my fellow employees - needless to say we ended up using Vue skies for backdrops! My fellow employees couldn't have agreed more and our boss was outvoted! I've been a Lightwave user since v4.0. Lightwave DOES require alot more work than Vue 4 - initially. However. Lightwave renders will end up looking more like reality than any Vue 4 renders. Once you get used to Lightwave and create presets for your realistic surfaces, images get alot better alot quicker. And YES, you can get better images out of Vue4 right out of the box - not doubt about it. But when you want realism - the ability to create something that will be indistinguishable from reality... you will want Lightwave. And you're right YL and MightyPete - the price of a program doesn't have a great deal to do with the final result. Give me Maya and Vue and right away I'll be able to create something in Vue that will far surpass anything I'd be able too do with Maya right away. But... give me some time to learn Maya and I'll bet I'll be able to outdo Vue4! In the final analysis it has to do with the artist using the keyboard! For me, I can't do without either Lightwave OR Vue - and alot of other programs that make life alot easier and our workplace ALOT more productive. And trust me, I know. We've just finished up our second year in business and we saw a 30% increase in revenue from our first year. Our primary software is Lightwave, but we use MANY other programs and without them we wouldn't have been able to get where we are and do what we've done. Hell, we're looking forward to Poser6, Vue5, WorldBuilder4, etc....etc. For everyone who really wants to learn Lightwave and has a desire to create VERY realistic images - you can if you want to. But it's not just point and click and render. It takes time and dedication and effort. The more effort you put in, the better the end result! Best of Luck to everyone here and a Happy New Year to ALL! Dave Williams Virtual Renderings