Yup, it's all about survival. CL kicked an unfinished P5 out the door because they were severely strapped for cash - they HAD to hurry to market, against better judgement. Too much enthusiastic inclusion of too many bells and whistles made the product a much more difficult proposition to develop and get stable than they had originally reckoned with. And cash ran out along the way. So... let the customers beta test, after all, they're a friendly bunch and hobbyists and enthusiastic and all, so we'll work it out together. :o) But it didn't work out. And now they're struggling still, severe stability and functionality issues are still snapping at their heels, and DAZ Studio is coming. So CL is worried! I really, really hope that they work it out, I love Poser. But I won't buy P5 until people are happy more often than they complain, and we're not there yet. But this other Pro-V thing - wow, standing up against DW MX and GoLive, that's like opening a tiny burger joint next door to MacDonalds and charging 4 times as much, it doesn't work, simple. Dead in the water for sure. :] Fish