My visable man right (post#17) is the result from rendering in a room, so yeah that does come out better. What I'm trying to do now is just tweaking Bryce until it can emulate the results of higher end programs. (call it my hobby) If I can (eventually) find a good base of settings to start from, all the better. And, here having no background cuts out the technique part (having a room) and just focuses on the actual settings of refraction, ray depth and TIR. Ambience also plays a big role in this case. Check out the link in post #9 if you want to see what I'm trying to get Bryce to match/emulate. p.s. - Don't feel like an idiot, there is ALWAYS something someone else will knows that you (I) don't. No matter how far along you get. AgentSmith

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