zhann, don't know what to say to that, but wait a few months and I'll show a pic of a scraggly little rose plant that grows by the side of my house... looks very similar. We've got other roses growing that make a sort of thick hedge, and still more that grow up the side of the house like vines. Art as metaphor/metaphor as art.... interesting concept. I was actually hoping that I wouldn't be the only one who saw twin roses, rising beside the water, amid the ruins (after the storm?)... but with a ray of hope. six hour render on a 2.26Ghz P4, only 256Mb RAM (santa hates me ;). Two spots, one main and obvious one, and one short and wide one shining up onto the rose between it and the camera. May turn up the intensity a hair on that one and re-render. I've rendered this 5 or 6 times already. Seems like if I get the rose perfectly lit by the main spot then there are strange shadows that I don't like elsewhere. nukeboy, Volumetric world is on, quality 100, density 50, fog off, haze at maybe 5 at the most (don't remember and not at home), I think the intesity on the main light is at 10 and the secondary light is 2. the main thing, I think, is to have something interesting to break up the light and cast shadows. That's why I added the boards on the framework... I thought they helped to break up the light and make the rays a little more complex.