A few points. CL didn't get into it's current condition overnight, and it isn't P5 or "whiners" that caused it's present situation. CL's business plan and practices, as well as the overall economic climate, are what caused this. CL was in difficulty long before the P5 release. CL released P5 too soon, due to the economic needs of the company, hoping to increase cash flow. This points to problems that existed well before the P5 release. The complaints and "whining" here and at other sites weren't the problem with P5, premature release was and bad follow up were. The "whining" was a very legitimate response to the problems that existed (and still do) with P5. Don't blame the people who paid the money for a product that didn't meet the promises the company made. There wouldn't have been nearly as much whining if the product had worked better. Having said that, CL made every effort, with the resources they had available, to correct the problems and to reestablish a good reputation. Heroic efforts were made by the programming staff to stay ahead of the flood of bug reports, however, the sheer quantity made it impossible for such a small company to stay ahead. Especially one that has a corporate parent that demands a share of the profits off the top, further reducing resources. Kupa, Larry, and the rest probably were hurt more than anyone with the premature P5 release. The early release must have felt like sending your kid to kindergarten for the first time, knowing in advance he's going to be beat up before he gets to school. Poser is their baby, and they put their souls into it. CL was in a no-win situation. What could they have done? It all came down to resouces for programming and testing, and time. They needed more. They didn't have it. Only by selling the company before the release to someone with big pockets, or partnering with someone willing to invest a large amount of $$$ in the company did it have any chance. Usually a parent company will step in with cash in a situation like this, but I get the impression that EGISYS isn't in any better condition. What can they do now? Not a thing. They don't have the money to keep the programming staff. They've let their key people go, and the bean counters are in charge. Not ever a good move for a software publishing company (see Dilbert). Unless they rebuild the programming and testing staff, there is no hope at all for them. They have value as a company now only in their copyrights. No employee base, no other assets. That means the only way to get cash is to either sell or liscense their technology to other more profitable companies. CL is prime for the picking, if anyone wants them. What does this mean to us? Well, I've got thousands of dollars invested in this "hobby", and suddenly the base is gone. I can no longer recommend Poser and a tool for client's development since I can be unsure of support. 3rd party vendors will feel the hit. Daz's best move has been announcing that Daz Studio is in development. It gives them an independent method of 3D figure support. 3rd party vendors will be desperatly trying to get at the specs for Daz Studio, because from now on they'll make d*mn sure their stuff will work with it. It has suddenly become the great glowing hope. CL may come out of this, but I don't expect it to be with EGISYS. So don't blame the nay sayers, it isn't their fault. I feel sorry for all the good people who worked for CL, but to blame the people who paid the company money for P5 and complained that they didn't get what was advertised is rediculous. We didn't cause the problem, we're the ones who lost the most on this. It's even hard to blame CL management. They did the best they could with what they had.