wdupre at the time i was broke and had no web site. i could not afford the web hosting. Someone was kind enough to buy me a domain name and a web site. I have tried to pay them back but they refused. After getting the web site up- thing have gone very well.

OK, let me give you a little information. 1) The items complained of are not torture items. In the real world, people who really do torture don't use custom-made bondage furniture in finished mahogany, and they sure as hell don't use shiny red ball gags. If you want to know what they do use, go and check with Amnesty International. These items are for bdsm play. In real life, they would only be used with the full consent of the "victim". If this all seems hard to grasp for those whose take on the adult world begins and ends with NVIATWIAS, then take it from me, it's true. Therefore the issue of torture in the TOS does not arise. 2) You will not see those items again. I have it from the creator of those props that he viewed this thread and decided he didn't want to be associated with this site. I don't blame him. I have never posted any of my free stuff at this site since much of it is adult-oriented, and I wanted to pre-empt PRECISELY this sort of attack. If you want to see it, you'll have to look for it. I believe I'm not supposed even to post a link here in case some witless minor clicks on it and is traumatised by the sight of a morphing riding crop. 3) I have seen on other sites a certain amount of criticism of Renderosity as being a place of hypocrisy and double standards. It might be no bad idea to make a decision: either (a) this is a family-friendly site with nothing but fluffy animals and flouncy frocks - in which case, kick out ALL the erotica. Or (b) this is a mixed, adult community - in which case the prudes and prigs should be told where to get off. Then at least we may have some consistency.

davo, personally I don't have a problem with the madlab-II stuff, and so long as the thumbs which were on view here didn't have models in them I think they would be acceptable. That's my opinion, but if you'd like me to ask the admin team their opinion I'm happy to do so. Kev.

..."in which case the prudes and prigs ..." Why is it that anyone who chooses not to view nudity is labeled a prude or prig? Maybe they just have no interest in nudity. Maybe they see it all day long at work and it's lost it's thrill and want to be thrilled by seeing something with clothes on?

davo, no I mean that they would have to have the human figures removed before they'd be okay to be used as thumbnails in Freestuff. If you were selling the items in the MarketPlace all of the images and the files would be hosted here and the images would all have to comply with the TOS. If you want more advice on what's acceptable in the MarketPlace please contact store@renderosity.com. Not that the images in there have any more leeway but I'm not a merchant so don't know if there are limitations on what actual items may or may not be accepted for sale.

illusions, just to be clear I'm a mod not an admin ;)

passes HUGE mug-o-coffee to illusions Cream & Sugar? .

"Why is it that anyone who chooses not to view nudity is labeled a prude or prig?" Note that I carefully didn't label anyone with these terms, I said that, in the case that some adult material is deemed to be suitable for Renderosity, such people should be told where to get off. Obviously such people exist, or we wouldn't have words for them. As to whether the thumbs had a figure in or not, it still wouldn't be torture. The figure would most likely be having a good time. Having to view all these sickening toonimals, now THAT's torture.

nono you said this "in which case the prudes and prigs should be told where to get off." If you had used the terms " such people " or "those who wish to not view" your post would have been much more effective. As it stands the way you posted it, anyone who chooses not to view for what ever reason, has been labeled. If one were to say "get that BDSM perverts and sexual deviant items out of..." you would be all up in arms at that label. "As to whether the thumbs had a figure in or not, it still wouldn't be torture. The figure would most likely be having a good time." Doesn't sound like a good time to me but i don't go around labelling people because of that. shrug

As I said, that's the raison d'etre for such things. It's a matter of fact. Chacun a son gout.

Oh, and "anyone who chooses not to view for what ever reason, has been labeled" is simply not so. I made no definitions.

"this is a mixed, adult community - in which case the prudes and prigs should be told where to get off." the implication was there.

I said that, in the case that some adult material is deemed to be suitable for Renderosity, such people should be told where to get off And the same should apply to those who, for whatever reason, cross the few lines we have around here. Don't like the tone of a particular thread? Don't post yer stuff here, lest you get called on it -- and that doesn't matter whether it's cute-n-fuzzy or BDSM toy props. It goes both ways, folk. But if you want me to have any respect for your POV, come up with something a tad more original than "prudes and prigs" and equating "family friendly" with pap.

I don't have sympathy for people who complain about their co-workers and kids seeing a little skin on this site. I have 6 kids for Pete's sake, and I can manage to brows here without them seeing a little T&A. What you choose to let your kids see, and what I choose to let mine see, are our rights as parents. Here where I am, I cannot afford to sit up all night waiting for my kids to be tucked into bed, so I can happily browse this site. Whether this is actually a 'family' site or not, there are filters that are to be used if you prefer not to see nudity.. and as such this site has a responsibility to keep certain things out of view that are not deemed 'family oriented' that do not have a 'filter' ~like the banner ads~ Phantast: Just because a few of us dont want to look at the same old boring nudes, that doesnt make us prudes or prigs.. You might get your jollies that way, but dont label me because I get mine a different way.. ~J

Eats all da cashews and then looks sheepish Ok, ok, ok.. I'll go get some more... :P ~J

Answer to illusions: anyone who fits the standard definition of the term, of course :) - there must be SOME around! But clearly not those "who choose not to view for WHATEVER reason", which must include gymnophobes and all sorts of other categories. Very careful not to point any fingers! I was trying to discuss in fairly general terms and I see some folk have taken it personally. Please note that I am NOT arguing that a whole lot of adult stuff should be added to this site. I was surprised that the props complained of were added here. Had they been mine, I wouldn't have put them here at all. They are more appropriate at Renderotica and Thralldom. Equally, use of the nudity flag and carefully observing the TOS gives me, personally, no problems. It strikes me as somewhat singular that the grounds for complaint was not that there were items of dungeon furniture being put here, but that there was a teeny tiny figure in the thumbnail. I know this has been the reaction of others, and I will refrain from quoting them. The perceived problem with this site (as per umpteen discussions here and elsewhere) is not really the policy as such with regard to adult items, but whether it is applied in a consistent and sensible way. The main reason why I chose to join this discussion, in any case, was to inform you (since it was left in doubt from previous posts) that you won't see those props again. Mission complete. Over and out.

No subjective observation needed. It's a thumbnail depicting a human figure in a torture device, complete with blood and expression of agony. In other words, a prima facie TOS violation.

I digress

{Why is it that anyone who chooses not to view nudity is labeled a prude or prig?} What about people who see nudity when they're not expecting to, such as when children are present. Or what if they're viewing this site from work (during a lunch break) and a co-worker comes up and sees the "SEX" or lingerie banner? Or how about this argument: An artist can't afford his own website, so he uses his gallery on Renderosity as his "portfolio" to show potential clients, friends, and family members. He put the link into his e-mails and tells his grandmother to go check out his artwork. She clicks the link to his gallery and sees the above-mentioned "SEX" banner. She didn't sign up to be a member, she didn't even read any disclaimers that there would be "adult material"- she just clicked a link that her grandson gave her. So, instead of seeing the artwork, she is suprised that her grandson would post to a site that would have such ads. What then? However, there is a way to block the banners on the top of the page within your own browser (that doesn't "interfere with the normal operations of the site") by using certain "ad-subtracting" software. But, I digress also...

no I see complaints in the forum wanting even the NVIATWAS not to be posted here ;-) Nary a one about wanting more erotica, there's places to post that all over, and you can even charge for the access to see it. as for R'osity's TOS on images to post, I agree with it. Hardcore sexual images need to be posted on an erotic site. No problems with that. However, this is an art site, and like a regular museum, you're going to see naked people, even children... and if you're curious if you can get away with naked babies... I did - I posted a photograph of a mural... the Nativity painted on the side of a Bavarian castle - complete with naked Baby Jesus and a naked Cherub fountain in the castle courtyard! You're also going to see naked women, naked men, people being killed in battle, Jesus being crucified... etc! And this is all ok, as long as its not involving out and out explicit sex. BDSM torture is not allowed here, and should not be. I guess the torture rule is more applied as 'torture in sexual situations" and that's a good rule to have here. That type of stuff doesn't belong here. But if we cut out ALL nudity, as some of the prudes and prigs would like to do... this place would fast lose its appeal. I'm pretty sure that Renderosity knows that, though... so I'm not overly concerned about it. Carry on folks doing the right thing.

And then you have people who call others names, who insist that it is their right to insist that all MUST view everything when all some want is a way to not filter it out as a professional courtesy.

you have that already, its called the nudity filter. Renderosity was very kind to give it to you. USE IT. You don't have that in a museum though. What will you do at the Met? What will you do when you are confronted by nudity in art there, and trust me, there's a lot of it. as for calling names, I've been called a pervert already by some of these people that would like this site as homogeneous as Wonder rubber bread, so I don't have any bad feelings calling the same people prudes and prigs like Phantast ;-)

"its called the nudity filter. Renderosity was very kind to give it to you. USE IT. " I do use it- it does not work on the banner ads nor the market place items. What part of " professional courtesy" and "everything has an appropriate place and time" are you not getting? Apparently all of it. when one brings a client here to view one's art, and said client normally does not view the types of images in the above banner composit image, and or would not normally vhoose to view those images, the above banners can and have caused negative reactions. There is NO FILTER to filter them out. Also this site has a consent form for under 16 , yet all the above banners are shown BEFORE one gets to the consent page. One has NO WAY of filtering what one sees when one first hits this site. But ahh that does not fit into your over-used concept of a museum does it? This is NOT a mueseum-Some here use this as a jump point to more lucrative positions.

I don't understand why people seem to have so much free time to browse galleries while at work... instead of working? Don't most businesses frown on that? I know I was always too busy to play at work... And if you get caught looking at nekkid chicks at the office, you get what you deserve. Also, don't underestimate children these days. Especially here in Germany, sex-hotline commercials air openly on TV. Okay, it's a plague, no doubt, but the fact stands... kids have already seen it all!

"I don't understand why people seem to have so much free time to browse galleries while at work... instead of working? Don't most businesses frown on that? " No- not if it's on some one's lunch break or break time or down time waiting for the next project or for any number of reasons where there is down time but one is still required to be there just in case..which in any case is not your business unless you are the one signing the check. How do you know it's not someone who's looking from work to aquire an artist for a book or something? In which case filtered banner would be a nice courtesy, "And if you get caught looking at nekkid chicks at the office, you get what you deserve." Which brings up the fact that most, out of courtesy for other co workers etc, would use the nudity filter, but there is no filter for banner ads etc. "Also, don't underestimate children these days. Especially here in Germany, sex-hotline commercials air openly on TV. " This site isn't in germany, german tv commercials have nothing to do with banner ads here. Also don't presume that "kids have already seen it all! " because some parents know thier children haven't. Rather arrogant and sweeping on your part to assume that most parents are clueless as to what their children know and see or don't know and haven't seen. Also American laws are different in regards to what minor children can see and cannot see.

Don't tell me about American laws here. I am a paralegal, and spent 22 years in the States. So I am not exactly naive. It is STILL the parent' responsibility to watch their children, not mine or yours or any artist's. I am not advocating exposing minors to porn. If you don't want yours to look at this place, don't go browsing when they are anywhere near you. Plain and simple. Or teach them from the get-go the difference between nudity and cheap porn. They understand quite nicely. At least those -I- know do... and that includes my own three brats. Btw, most offices I have been at did NOT allow browsing around, not even on breaks. And arrogant... arrogance is assuming that only Americans browse galleries, no? There -is- a world out there, you know.

Just because the offices YOU have been at does not mean that ALL offices are the same. I do know there is a world out there- I am American by choice not by birth. If this is to be a learning site about art then i should be able to bring my children/co workers/associates etc here here without fear of emabrassing them, exposing them to that which they may not want to see etc etc. At the same time i should be able to filter out what i do not want children/co workers/associates/peers etc to see- which at this point is not possible.

I look at the galleries with my children as I would love for them to get interested in art..they love it. Im building computers for my kids right now because they 'want to draw pretty pictures like they see on 'Rosity.. But even my youngest at 9 yrs old, will cover her eyes at the sight of a partialy clad woman ~by partialy I mean stars over the nipples~ real or not spread eagle on a banner ad. To tell me not to browse this site until my children are elsewhere is insulting.. That makes me feel as tho I have to sneak around like some teenager tryin to get a look at Dad's girly books before he comes home.. All we asked was for the nudity filters to be put on the BANNER ADS and MARKET PLACE items so we dont have to look at it.. NOT remove the nudity from the site. Im sure alot of people would literally die without their daily dose of 'Rosity nudity, and I wouldnt want any deaths to occur What I dont understand is people that are fighting against the blasted filters..As long as those who want to see nudity can still see it, and can feast their eyes on it to hearts content, why put up such a fuss over those who wish to look at other things..SHEESH!! Regardless, Spike has commented in another thread that this point would be brought to the attention of the admins as it was a good idea to be thought about.. I feel that we will get what we asked for in time, so no worries.. ;) ~J ~Jani :)

Snicker Guess I could'nt decide how to sign my name on that last one...ARRGGGHH!! Edit Buttons!! We def. need edit buttons! {BG} New topic?? ~me :)

new topic- a " are you sure you want to delete this post" warning before deleting a post" button :) and an edit function LOL

~LOL~ I hear ya.. I know we have a 'preview post' button, but I usually preview it before I hit that 'post reply' button..an edit button would be wonderful :) ~pssstt...Spike... hint, hint {BG} ~J

I've noticed lately that some banner ads are pushing it. There's no doubt about that.

As far as browsing while at work, I'm the boss. I can. :) And it's like a second home to me so I have my computer set up and get online when it's not busy. With 11 hour days it's not hard to find some down time.

And as for nudity on the site, it doesn't matter what your opinion of it is, if you even so much as suggest that people flag their images for nudity people will lable you a "prude" or "prig" without so much as an attempt at seeing your point of view. They are so sure you're out to take away their nudity when all you want is for people to use a filter that is built in to the site anyway AS A WARNING.

But no, they don't see beyond their own keyboard. :)
And then to equate this site with museums..... lol. If I laughed as loud as I'd like, I'd wake the house. :)

Yup..'tis sad but true.. And the bit about comparing this site with a museum..If there was THIS kind of nudity at the museum, I wouldnt take my kids there either.. there, I have the power to stop my kids from seeing it.. here, as it is now.. I dont. ~J :)