The thread is almost over-- I hope. It wasn't thought out well-- not like a good Poser render;-) You never get people to change, for that matter, you never inspire people by telling them that the manner in which they are making art [good art, lame art or crap art] should change radically. Regular Posers are photographers, basically, who assemble a scene from a vast array of sources and recreate a personal vision through a rendering, with or without postwork, that can move someone. And here you go, telling them, did they ever think they might be worthless unless they miners, writers or weavers-- um no, I personally didnt. The people who are going to go on to modeling generally do, those who are going to go on to texturing generally do, those that feel no call or enthusiasm in any of those area often choose postwork as a way of growing their art. Or they export to Bryce or Vue and grow that way. I do a little bit of texturing-- still trying to figure out how to include fractalling which is my primary artform. It's difficult as mostly crappy or cliched fractals are the best to use as texture adjuncts, and my fractals stand on their own. I've never felt worthless working in Poser. My artforms have usually been collaborative. I've worked in the theatre a great deal, as stage manager, Actress and Director. Poser is really Directing on steroids because the cast doesn't argue for the most part.:)) Like whatever form of art you like, hate whatever form of art you hate. Just don't ask me to follow you. Don't like Poser, think it's worthless, here's a clue-- Don't Do It. To the extent that you don't even visit the Poser forums. Or galleries-- well why would you go to galleries of art that you hate?? Hmmm? Emily