It seems this debate is very old in the forum now. Some are die hard one way, and others the other way. If you want to see renders, search the galleries. I poked around a lot before ordering P5. If you're happy with P4, stick with it. If there are features you want to expolre in P5, go that way. Eventually everyone will go to P5 (perhaps with pro pack after that comes out), or they will go to Daz's proported new potential poser replacement. This whole debate is not unlike that which goes around operating systems. "Win 98 stinks. We need a new version" "XP is no better, I'm staying with 98" "I'll go to Linux" "Linux doesn't run my programs well" "Settle back on XP" etc.... P4 wasn't perfect so we griped and asked for new features. P5 isn't perfect so we gripe about the new features. It seems that someday we'll understand that products made by people will never fully meet our expectations. If it's good enough and useful enough to warrant the purchase price, we'll buy it, use it, and not stress over it!