Chrisdmd, which "really good renderer" doesn't XL have? Both the Studio and XL bundles contain the Advanced Renderer. The only thing you get with Studio, not included with XL, are Dynamics and Unlimited NET Render (instead of 3-license NET Render). I know, I own it. So, C4D XL R8 is comparable to LW 3D 7.5, but LW has more bang for the buck. I also agree with Questor: try the demos and decide for yourself.