chuck, Well thought out and well said. It's good to read a non-hysterical post that makes valid points. 'A lot of people bought Poser5 simply because they had faith in Steve Cooper' Yeah, tell me about it! I was one of them, at least partly. I also wanted to keep up to date with the app, and figured I'd buy it eventually anyway, so what the heck... Well, I still haven't installed it. It's in it's shrink-wrap and is staying there until I'm sure it won't trash my computer. When I finish my current project in poser 4, I'll think about it. I'm perfectly willing to give CL the benefit of the doubt as to what they're actually doing, but I'd prefer it if I didn't have any doubts. mac