Chuck, I happily upgraded to ProPack a couple of years ago. The multiple viewpanes alone made it worthwhile. (Sorry Eric, I was going to use this example before I scrolled down far enough to see your image.) If you have a dragon crumpling a scroll, then it doesn't matter if his talons go though it as you move things around. If you have Vicky crumpling a love-letter, being able to have a main view for overall position, AND a view for her hands so that the fingers don't go through the paper, AND a view of her face to be sure that her eyes keeping tracking the letter no matter how you pose the hand... ALL visible at the same time? Yes! The Setup Room alone made it worthwhile. I could build things out of props and primitives and put bones in them (I was designing an animatable corporate logo this way before my employer went down the tubes). You can move bones from one figure to another and tweak, or do it from scratch... but either way your model is off and running and it doesn't take a week to do it either. The python scripts alone made it worthwhile... and this was before Ockham started pushing their boundaries. Most of what I collected was simple useful stuff, like making a character completely White to his toenails before applying texture maps? Delete all lights? Render to BMP? Zero out all morphs? Any of these with a click?!? These are all little things but they save time and hair (a lot of hair in my case). I ignored the cartoon people, that isn't my style. I didn't get to the point of exporting to the other programs because the other artist was using Maya and that plugin didn't yet exist, but tested a couple of them while we were deciding upon art paths. There are undoubtedly features and functions that I still haven't explored and exploited, but mostly because I haven't needed to. However, there is enough good stuff that any one of the major features presents a convincing argument for an upgrade. It runs fine on my G4 under OS9.0 with only 384 megs of RAM. If you are on a PC go directly to Poser 5 unless you needed the plug-in ability yesterday. If you are on a Mac, take another look at the ProPack. Carolly