Thanks Kixum, Excellent write up on soft shadows. Reducing the bias to 0 improved the floating shadows a little bit. It will have to do for now - hopefully only I will know the shadows aren't too accurate, but if I can see then someone else might - it's only for a low res presentation anyway. Hopefully this will be fixed in future releases. I don't have time to play with GI because it's one of those "you want a picture? when? tomorrow???? No problem" Thanks, A