Hi. I moaned and whined and complained about P5 quite a bit, and frankly, the program as initially released deserved it. Since the service releases, it's still not perfect, but it's NOT the piece of junk that some people (some with vested interests) would have us believe. I think that part of the problem may have been that the first release WAS so trashy that people who just didn't know how to use the new controls got weird results and yelled 'BUG!' I know I did this once or twice. I find I'm now starting to spend less and less time in P4PP and more and more in P5. And liking it. Two other things I'd like to say... In a lot of the CL bashing, we've been treating CL as if it was a single person - but I presume that it has divisions - I mean, do you think the programmers themselves would have been happy to release P5 in its initial form? I seriously doubt it - most programmers I know take a genuine pride in their work. I presume that there are administrators and money guys who said 'We want the program out, YESTERDAY!' Or perhaps not. I don't know. But I'd like to thank the programmers who made the program (even if 'CL' has dispensed with with the services of some of them). I've been looking at all sorts of other 3D software recently, and IMO, P5 - even with the faults that remain - still represents by far the best value for money in software of this type. And while I'm still happy to blow a rasberry at the CL admin, I REALLY hope the company doesn't go under. I for one would hate to see a situation where DAZ had a monopoly on the market. Competition is good for us, the customers. (I'm gonna get eaten alive for posting this stuff, aren't I? But I wanted to get it off my chest.) Morph