Hey no problem Bryster. To put it simply I guess we are trying to do ina $300 program what can be achieved in the $1000-$2000 programs. A challenge to prove Bryce is just as good as the others for less price. BTW shadowdragonlord, you seem to always be bringing up how lazy something is. I noticed you use LW, when animating do you use the gravity, deflection etc features? If so maybe that's doing it the lazy way. Just because something is easier to achieve one way doesn't make it lazy. Hell the ultimate lazy is just rendering a photo onto a 2D face.