I don't know how good of a representation that test is Mark. No offense, but I've seen Carrara do some REALLY amazing things. That Bryce render IS pretty good, but, if you'll remember, there was a thread a little while back with some test renders, the Carrara one looked better and at one minute thirty seconds as opposed to the five hours for Bryce, I don't think fake caustics are worth it. Plus with some clever tweaking you can fake caustics in Carrara too. Just my thoughts. Cool models. :) Peace, Hoborg