Donald, fair enough, although please understand that I'm really not trying to stir up a hornets nest here. For the record, anything I post here will NOT be photoshop manipulated other than minor color correction, spoting, or maybe a little blur tool. Most of what I've posted in the last couple of days is light painting with a fiber optic light and an open shutter on either a Sinar 4x5 or an RZ. -jay