I got the Amapi v5.1 with PC Format yesterday and it was only 6 pounds, a bargain really since it is the full program, oh I wish we had euro's too. Anyway I haven't installed it yet 'cos I also got a new hard drive, 40Gb, and I'm in the process of installing everything else. Do you know that the Murkysoft updates for Win XP Pro amount to over 29Mb. Thanks for your input guys I know that between my own stubborn nature and the great help I get from here that I'll get there in the end, and you're right GG I just don't use it often enough I sort of get disheartened when I fall flat on my face one more time. Cheers Catlin :)