Just a second. Yes, CL made a mistake releasing P5 before it was ready, and a lot of folks (justifiably) feel like they've been screwed. But when I see that small group of people overcome with glee about CL's situation, that's a bit much. Keep in mind, the folks from CL were on these very boards long ago (and pretty dedicated over time), asking "What do you want to see in Poser5?" You remember the list? Collision detection, cloth draping, photo-to-mesh modeling, a whole new render engine (yet one which could still render on the fly as P4's preview does), a solution to helmet hair, defined cloth properties, joint editing, wind and motion simulation... and there was obviously a concerted effort to try to deliver a lot more of that list than we'd expected. It's likely the time and money that they spent putting all of that in there that got them backed into a corner and economically forced to release it before it was ready. It doesn't change what's happened and doesn't invalidate the problems people have had, but remember the context before celebrating, okay? Devil's Advocate Chas