thanx for everyones input. As carolly has said, long hair is very fluid and dynamic. To limit the entire model to a small number (like 30) would severely limit the way you can pose it. Currently, you get a hair model and what you get is what you get (with very small adjustments possible) I want (and actually need..I need this model for personal use) a hair model that is so dynamic that you can make hair sweep all the way around the head and dangle over the chest... flyaways that are realistic in the way they behave (and look) and stranded instead of 'meshed' in layers. Long hair, unless very clean and newly groomed, appears in streaky strands instead of a flat mesh surface. Ya dont see many images of the fantasy women genre (drawing...not computer generated) where the woman has short hair or is bald. You see a few, but not as many. The long hair can make such a statement in the image...indicating wind, exhaustion, frustration, the end of a battle, (or at the opposite end) the beginning of a ball. Anton, I have made figures (the centipede) with 180 parts. And even on my machine, as long as there are not a lot of morphs or additional things to keep up with...models with such things dont gripe much in poser. Poser does gripe, but not nearly as much as it does with V3. So the idea to completely dodge morphs. Control handles (if even necessary) instead of morphs will be much more "end-user" friendly than morphs. But as you say, there is the poser limitation and how it will behave so Id have to keep that in mind too. With that in mind, I also want to watch the poly count so as to add enuff to make it real, but not so much as to make it like having 2 V3's loaded. Just guessing, but I think I can bring it in under 30000. As for other figures..like mike, aiko, dina, v2, steph..etc. I dont have them..so I cant make pre-set hair for them. I will however make this as versatile as possible so that, even tho it enters the scene for V3..it can be repositioned and saved to be used with any figure. I'll remove the transational data from any poses so it wont move after its positioned. I have absolutely no doubt I can make this. After making the boa, half-making a fur coat and making the pirate hair (same method as the boa), I know I can do this and give great mapping so that people can even use real hair picts as textures much easier. I just dont want to limit it too much. Now lets talk ERC. Exactly what do you all mean you want it to do via erc? I can add an EZ-pose like setup to it for each strand (so it can be straight, curled, or wavy)..but what else do you have in mind. Please remember that tho erc is kewl, with a large joint model, it is more likely to make poser choke. thanx for everyone's input BT