Thanks for trying to make the peace, but I'm afraid it may be too late for a lot of folks. I'm a late starter with Poser, but I sure understand why some people are ticked.....and you must admit that these new CL guys really do sound like they have a stick up the old waazoo or are connected to a wall socket! The real reason I wanted to respond to you is that you asked the question: "....if it wasn't for Poser, where would ya be?". I know where I'd be: working on some neat image in Vue d'Esprit or Bryce, or maybe cleaning my house instead of sitting in front of this dumb computer or getting some exercise and fresh air.....and I sure as heck would have a lot more money in my bank account! :) If I had a bear, by gosh I'd drink it! But I don't think I can afford to buy one :) Just having some good natured fun....hopefully you know that....Peace! :)