Pete..that's really great that you can think that way, but, how do I explain this. One of the things that makes Bryce so easy for NON 3D and non-draftsman type people to get started with is that you really don't even have to think in terms of x,y,z at all. At least at first when everything in the program is so new to you. The edit controls direction matches the direction of the default view. So you can size and drag and rotate without worrying about x,y,z. And the reason you move to other views is only to get your object placement correct at first and you can do that totally visually. And if you need to work on an object that's already rotated, simply go into object space and drag on the doohickies. You still don't have to worry about x,y,z. If you move your scene around so it's no longer default, then you just go into 'camera space' and the edit controls again match the direction you're looking at. It's later when you start to actually construct things that you might have to worry about x,y,z and where the control point is and learn about bryce units and the grid. For those that are comfortable in 3D-space they can set up the default view as they wish, and type in numbers, and do everything they normally would like to do in a 3D program. For those that are new to 3D-space, this is an undaunting method of getting them into it. Not everyone is ready to think like a draftsman right away, and there's no reason to frustrate them from the beginning. The interface was built for both types of users, something that's lost on a lot of people who simply don't understand why Bryce is the way it is. Sorry I went on so long. Thanks for the info on the patches...the first thing I'll check for when I get it!