Yep, akin, I always get the names mixed up. LOL. I'm all for choice, but here the choice is between free and $100. I'm not saying the product isn't good. Just that it's too expensive for me. And I'm sure it's fast and easy, but I kinda like doing a lot of things manually. It's a good way to learn. Some things should definitely be automated, but I'm happy doing it by hand for now. And yes, Jim, I still have max 3.1 too. Animation upgrades leave me unenthusiastic. You think you're behind! Poser 5? I bought it and haven't even installed it yet. mac