Thanks guys and gals, this helps a lot... i can't spell cuz i have a block for words... it's genetic as nether my father nor any of my brother can spell... it's real intresting, in a programing forum i posted at, most people played with things while writing there code, like toy guns or some kinda ball or something (like me and my zippo, i don't smoke anymore, i just light and put out the zippo) thanks again Kevin Giga