I realize that this is probably not a topic that is relevant to Poser but at the same time I found it very upsetting. Draw your own conclusions but I know my spending habits will definitely be changed so as to avoid French products. The showpiece cenotaph at the graveyard in Northern France was smeared in red paint with the words: Dig up your rubbish. Its fouling our soil. Other slogans at the Etaples cemetery near Boulogne included Death to the Yankees and Saddam Hussein will win and spill your blood. And the vandals wrote Rosbeefs go home the French insult for Brits is roast-beefs. Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush were also branded war criminals. The graffiti was discovered by a shocked gardener and spotted by around 80 visitors. While cemetary maintenance workers attempted to clean off the graffiti traces of it were still noticeable the next day. Roy Hemmington spokesman for the Commonwealth War Graves Commission said: We are deeply offended. This is the strongest language and most vile graffiti I have witnessed at a war graves cemetery. The suggestion that the bodies of British soldiers who died for France should be dug up is particularly foul. Most soldiers buried at the cemetery were defending France at the Somme and Ypres during World War I. Another 122 are troops who died fighting the Nazis in World War II. Among the dead are a winner of the Victoria Cross, 217 holders of the Military Medal and 69 holders of the Military Cross. A number had been awarded Frances top military decoration, the Legion dHonneur. Roy added: Almost every British regiment has war dead here. This insults just about the entire British Army. French residents in the area had mixed feelings about the vandalism. A nearby group of young people expressed pro-Iraq sentiments and felt the vandlism was justified. One young man was quoted as saying: "If the Iraqi people have chemical weapons they should use them to defend their country. I hope there will be many more cemetaries like this in Iraq. It is what they deserve." Anti-British feeling has been whipped up in France since President Jacques Chirac refused to let the UN back action against Iraq. A recent poll showed that nearly one third of French citzens surveyed favored an Iraq victory over "Anglo-American" forces.

Hi Farang, I think you are absolutely right about your feelings about this, and I agree.........but I think if you take this to the OT forum, it will be more favorably welcomed and you will get more people who will respond. (: That is just my opinion, and has nothing to do with the sentiments of anyone else, so please.......don't misunderstand.....it doesn't matter to me, where you post. (: Genny

If you ask me we should have left them alone with the Nazis back in WWII....that just shows the kind of gratitude the cowardly French have for the Americans and British soldiers who died fighting for them, everyone knows they surrendered twice without a fight, bunch of cowards is what they are. Maybe it is about time to bring our dead soldiers home and let the french surrender next time some one invades their country, tell me,what are we supposed to do
let people suffer and die, They critisize us when we do something, and they critisize us when we don't, its a loose, loose situation, but where would the world be without Great Brittain and the USA.

Just to mention before this thread gets locked - the French have their uses, so why waste time insulting them here? They're more aware of their own shortcomings than anyone of us probably realizes.

Can we please keep xenophobia and/or international politics out of the Poser Forum?

C'mon.Just because there are some borish French doesn't mean anything.Do you want to be judged by the vandals where you live? There are good and bad in all groups.I'm an American.Sometimes I'm proud of that,sometimes not.

As I said in the OT Forum.... Let's not do this ! Please I beg of you....think, feel and hold your thoughts to yourself, it is not for us to convince others, let's just not go there. Sharen

They are always so eager to surrender, I think we should invade them next...a joint USA/Britain operation. We should march in as they surrender, immediately set up Martial Law and burn down every pretensious bistro and replace it with McDonalds and Taco bell. We should take over their television and show nothing but "She's the Sherrif" Reruns 24/7. English will be the new national language and anyone caught with a french accent will be considered a Terrorist threat under the provisions of martial law. This will either thin out the herd or shut them up. The Eiffel Tower will be replaced with a giant statue of Bush and Blair urinating all over Paris. All Vineyards and private French wine collections will be either destroyed or poured into a large vat and mixed with Mountain Dew and redistributed. The Cannes Film Festival, each year, will now be called the "Hollywood Film Festival" and will feature such films as Robocop and any new offerings from Ivan Reitman. On the other hand, if I hear one more Pretensious Kid brainwashed by his parents into asking Me (a waiter) for "Freedom Fries" I will be forced into serving the brat deep fried American Flag. -WTB

When I posted, I did not want to give the impression that I have anything against any one from France, personally. I come to this forum to learn, to have fun, to share an image here and there..........not to get involved in any polictical discussions or rants. I only posted to suggest, that this discussion should be taken elsewhere. (: I do have my opinions on this matter, but I just didn't think this was the place to do it. (: Genny

Well, to further derail this useless post in an inappropriate forum, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE STOP POSTING "AW CHECK OUT MY CUTE PICTURE" in the Poser forum. Take it to OT, or the galleries. We do not need to see ever version of your images that you make with the characters in this forum. Now back to the regular insulting/name calling/shouts of outrage... - Ray

Hey now! What's wrong with Robocop?

The problem with the OT forum, is that you get a lot less of responses there. Face it, Most people come here, for poser and usually this the only forum that they go to. I include myself in that group as well. And While it may bother the poser purists, the world doesn't revolve around poser, a nice thought but not realistic. We are a community of poser users, and as a community, we have other concerns beside poser....

"Now back to the regular insulting/name calling/shouts of outrage..." Fortunately, that's not at all "regular" here in the Poser Forum. While I sometimes agree with your sentiment about the "cute" pictures, fact is, they're renders of Poser models, made in Poser, and are very popular with a huge segment of the community. Unlike farang's inappropriate screed, they're on-topic and appropriate to the subject matter of the forum.

Butch, none of our worlds revolve 100% around Poser, but this forum is supposed to. :-) If people need responses on their political convictions, or simply need to air them, there are countless appropriate online forums for that.

OK how many of us actually visit the OT forum?

so, like....what does this have to do with poser? this is not relevant to poser users. this is a learning sight...about 3d art creation. i was sick of the war by the time it started. maybe, you could have more fun with this thread in ot, or the tavern...'cause i fail to see what this has to do with art.

Lyrra, Kill this damn thread PLEASE!!

"OK how many of us actually visit the OT forum?" More people should, it's a hoot.

Zowie! Saw this thing to to OT in real-time. Got me confused for a sec, there... "Let's do the time warp again!"

I am one who visits the OT forum........and I am glad to see that this message has been moved here........where it belongs.........now...........Who ever wants to say, what-ever you want to say..........GO FOR IT! (: Genny

Merde! 8P

Please don't boycott 'douche'.

"Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true." Demosthenes. Acts of vandalism no more reflect the vast majority view in France then such acts in other countries. To espouse such a belief is to surrender to the same self-deceit. The Headline in LE MONDE on September 13 2001 read: "Nous sommes tous Americains" (We are all Americans). To put the insults of a few vandals above the feelings of brotherhood and support expressed in the above headline is to give in to the same kind of hatred and xenophobia expressed by those acts. How would you feel if People said that since David Duke is an American than all Americans are David Dukes and all American Poser products should be boycotted? Cone on.... Stop reacting and start thinking.

them Frog eating Snail lovers have never forgiven us in Britain for Agincourt & we'll never forgive them for being arrogant no humoured po-faced bastards :)

I don't think that they're that amused about Waterloo either ;)

"Acts of vandalism no more reflect the vast majority view in France then such acts in other countries."

I have to agree with this regarding the vandalism. However, I do have some hard feelings against france and I believe rightfully so.

I can summarize my feelings for the french attitude toward america by sharing a small story of something that really happened to me.

This guy I went to high school with and pretty much thought highly of since he was a better wrestler than myself and all, came home to settle by in his folks house after his life pretty much feel apart. He had in his many years as a roving prodigal, killed a few folks while in the service of some motorcylce gang and done a bit of time in the big house.

Anyway, so he gets out and moves in with his folks two houses over. All the people around our neighborhood pretty much shuned him like a pariah. But not I. I treated him with respect even thought it was clear he had lingering problems with drug usage and alcohol. 1 night in a big snow storm, he decided to go horseback riding in the mountain range by my behind my land and simultaneously slamming some booze. He ended up spread eagle in the sub zero temperatures in the snow a few miles out on the trail. The guy riding with him couldn't help him because he is one of those angry violent drunk types. So his friend comes to my door in the middle of hte night waking me from a dead sleep. "Raif has fallen and he can't get up. He's gonna freeze to death. Can you come help me haul him back in.". Of course I grabbed my shoes, forgot my damn glooves and took off after him on my ATV. I won't even go into trying to load his dumb ass on the 4 wheeler while deflecting his blows in my direction. All the way back he goes through bouts of crying and then forgetting who I am and trying to break my ribs and sometimes just go limp where I have to hold him from falling. It was truly pathetic that this grown man could not or rather would not defend/ care for himself. So we got him back just in time to avoid death by Hypothermia.

Anyway to make a long story short, he asked me, a few weeks later to allow him to breed his aging Rottwielr male to my Rotty female so he could get a sire from his favorite dog before he died. I agreed. He ended up taking my dog whilst in his care to a drug dealer and trading her for drugs. He then told me some lame ass story about someone coming a robbing her from his pen while leaving his own Rott. So anyway, that was his thank you for me saving his very life.

THAT is how I feel about the French and their attitude toward America! But you know what, if Nazi's were invading Paris this minute, we'd be there tommorrow, cause that's the kind of friend America is. But it does suck when friends stab you in the back, especially after you stick your neck out for them.

Ah Greybro I don't think the french are stabbing you (the USA) in the back :) They disagree with your goverment's attitude to the UN as well as wanting some of that oil for themselves ;) You can't make people like each other and the French are just..well, french. You tell most french people to do anything and they'll do the exact opposite just to annoy you lol. I like the french as well as the americans, at the moment it's like watching two old friends squabbling and I wish you'd make up

I have met quite a few jerks who were Americans, some who were French, Canadians, British etc. I have also met some wonderful people who are Americans, some of my best friends are Americans, and some great French citizens as well. I'm not French but I am a francophone. I strongly disagree with the way the US conducted its diplomacy at the UN. I think this war is wrong. I think it will have dire consequences. But I will not transfer my disapointment in the US gvt. to Americans here. Nor would I boycott a product because some jerk vandalises a sacred place or expresses his hatred for any racial or ethnic group, whatever the reason. I will not let myself be defined by hatred. I will not let these bastards change me. I will keep some perspective in these terrible times. I will not give up the ultimate freedom, that of choosing to build instead of destroying. I've been reading Frankl these days so permit me to give one of his most famous quotes: "We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances - to choose one's own way." Dr. Viktor E. Frankl I've chosen my attitude. You all are free to choose yours. Take care, Q

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Hermann Goering

"Our Government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear, kept us in a stampede of patriotic fevour, with the cry of grave national emergency. Always, there has been some terrible evil to gobble us if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant funds demanded"
-Gen. Douglas MacAuthor 1951

A frenchman has been quoted as saying that he detests this desecration - while saying that he doesn't back the war... I know of a couple of wars he would have backed...

A certain type of Frenchman has always been known for arrogance and thinking that they were better than everyone else and that the world revolved around them. My goodness, that sounds just like some of us Markins. Both groups should be exiled to a small island and forced to subsist on poorly prepared Mexican food. It's 2003 folks, excessive nationalism may not be dead but it definitely can be deadly.

applauds Kenkc2 very apt.

"When I hear the word art, I reach for my luger." Hermann Goering

Goodness.. We ALL suck :P Americans, French, British, Iraqis, Danish, Finnish... I can't believe this just goes on and on and on and on here. So France disagreed with the US politics. Get over it. If I have to read one more post about how the French should still show gratitude because of WW2, I'm going to puke. WW2 was a totally different thing than what is going on now, IMHO! The kinda vandalism described in the original post is sick but that doesn't mean every French person is like that. If you guys want to discuss politics, go ahead.. but when it becomes putting one nation down it just makes me sick. Renderosity has loads and loads of French members as well and I just find it really sad that you guys are putting them down like this. sigh

Well, the French did help us defeat the British in our war of independence. We should be greatful for that, even though we're still being ruled by King George :-)

'We all suck'..you seem to be implying that we're all equal and I'm afraid I take exception to that..We British were sucking before America existed..look at our food, our weather, our warm beer. I'd like to see any other country that has been consistently sucking for centuries! We took our sucking around the world and it's about time we got credit for it!! Outraged of Liverpool

Think of us poor Canadians. We were colonized by both the French and the British... Jeezzz... That's why we put cheese on chips.

Silly Brits! You think you suck? We in America are the suckiest of all!A nation of a few great liars and endlest hordes of gullible fools who'll believe any lie,told in a big voice.

Then how can I be sure you're not lying about that? (;P)

Anybody else notice that this TROLL "farang" always starts a very inflammatory thread, and then never shows up in it again?

Curiousity prompted me to search 'farang.' I found the following: "Even if you can speak no other words of Thai, most European and American visitors to Thailand will quickly become familiar with the Thai word farang (often mispronounced (even by Thais) as falang - farang with a slightly trilled 'r' is the correct pronunciation.) It's basically used to describe caucasians, though African-Americans will sometimes also be known as farang or as farang dam ('black farang'). Farang is also the Thai word for the guava fruit, so you can expect to hear farang eating farang 'jokes' if you happen to purchase any."

So the smeghead that started this is a fruit? (or would that be fruitcake?)

He certainly doesn't have the balls to reply in public, though he sent me what he obviously intended to be a very insulting IM. Even that was pathetically amateurish. I've been insulted by experts, and have respect for those who can use invective and vituperation with skill and imagination - of which absolutely none was apparent in the vile language he 'tried' to use in the IM. Ho. Hum.

I see he also hides behind a phony name - most likely a clone of one of the other hateful frothers who post here.