yeah, i was torn between c4d r8 and lightwave. i went with lightwave because at the time, c4d didn't have any real hdri support, plus the cell shaders available for lw were way better. but i have a little history with c4d, and it's got a little spot in my 3d heart too. i think that, with p5's reputation, and daz|studio coming out, cl is going to either really shape up, or sink, and i'm willing to bet they shape up. however i also think that they're going to have to work awfully hard to gain trust again.