Thank you all for this great help(sorry I didn't reply sooner,but I'm on a dialup and our phone lines were down). First I was wrongly under the impression that Vue would seamlessly tile any bitmap image used.Knowing that it doesn't,I know to make my own seamless for Vue useage. Second,I thought the ground plane was something you were stuck with.Removeing it did help somewhat. Third,I had already tried adding turbulance and changing the functions for the water,but what solved my problems was changing the bumb scale.It seems to me that the bumb maps have a much stronger effect in Vue than what I'm use to(Poser).Up to now I have been useing the calm looking water for my close in scenes.But several of the preset liquid materials I just tried came in very strong(as in my sample picture),and need alot of rescaleing to look good.I imagine they are for very distant water(?). Once again,I thank you all very much for your help.This is a very supportive forum. SWAMP