I played with the lighting some more and I think it is now looking a bit more realistic. At the moment the render time is 4hours 44minutes set to normal AA, at least that's what it says which means it will probably be triple that. Can someone tell me if candle light should be soft shadows or not? I've set them to soft and this is what's bumped up the render time. Yes Chris we still live in the dark ages up here, and that's actually a picture of me by the door and it's venison broth boiling in the cauldron. Would you like some? 8) Catlin