The new version is now 24 hours into render and I only closed it to come see what's going on in here. I've toned down the lights a little and the general effect is looking better but you'll have to wait till tomorrow to give your opinions on the new version. Flak as I said before to Bryster, (otherwise known as diet man), this is how we live in Scotland. You should come pay a visit some time. 8) Thanks for all your comments everyone. With all your prodding in the right direction I'll one day make a great scene. Cheers Catlin