Tasquah - I am PjPix at shama@firstva.com ;-D I joined several tube groups to try to get those who do care to understand that the precedent being set by owners/mods of these groups is wrong. Can't sway the ones that don't care but can certainly shed light on it for those that really don't understand and are going by what the others tell them. I doubt my response to her will be posted but I'll tell you here: here is a snippet: "Since you asked, I am actually quoting the attorney I have on retainer that I asked about this in regards to my own artwork, we have a form "cease & desist" in place for things like this. Good idea though if you are going to run a group and insist on distributing these things to contact your own attorney so that you know the statement is not biased and learn what it would really take to protect yourself - those statements on the bottom of your emails aren't enough - not after you publically acknowledge that you know you are distributing copyrighted material. Maybe if you did that you wouldn't be so defensive but instead would realize that the artists who cry "foul" have rights. It should only take a consultation sitting, just be sure it is a lawyer who handles copyright and trademark issues. One of the rules here is that we aren't supposed to change the file names and such of the tubes that are snagged - why not?? Giving credit to the one who tubed an image is more important than respecting the copyright of the original artist? If you make linkware and I distribute it re-coloured from my site would you mind?? How about if I distribute your tubes without your names? Snowglobes or whatever graphics you use these for - would you mind if I took yours and distributed them without your name on them? Mind you I wouldn't do that - its a rhetorical question. Believe me when I tell you most artists don't appreciate that you find them because of tubes, maybe some do but none of the ones I know are too thrilled - the talks of class action lawsuits by those who have been "tubed" and distributed within one specific group are a clear indication of that dissatisfaction. That is the worst attitude - "please thank me for stealing or distributing what I know is stolen" it gives you more exposure. The amazing thing is I'd bet that you wouldn't dream of walking into a a small gallery or a store and stealing a tangible piece of art, book, greeting card whatever, nor would you encourage your children to do so, most of you seem like very nice people. Why is that amazing to me? Because I personally don't understand how anyone thinks there is a difference. "

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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo