Yeah, History is a lot like sausage, you don't want to know what really went into it, but you probably ought to. Velvet, I will run up my true colors and state what haunts me about this - the Peoples here pre-1500 had been for as long as 30,000 years or more and given their ethic could have been for another 30,000 if left alone. When you look at what we Germanic invaders have done in less than 200 years and project that path... I would not bet on another 100 without some serious bill coming due. I think on many levels, they had it about right and fairly well optimized. When I see the stories by and about the decendants of those people, I sense that this ethic still pulls at them, and we have made it impossible to follow it. I am projecting but, I would find it difficult to adapt to a new culture if some part of me knew it to be insane.