I'm not so pessimistic... but the obvious advantage is to Curious Labs I think... Eovia is going strong with great products. And importing from Poser can be done without the headaches... problem is that its not easy when you don't know how to do it. And shaders for transparencies can be a pain, but that's solvable too. And no, you don't even need Grouper... in fact I don't use Grouper to import Poser scenes anymore. now, what do I need to do to get a Poser plugin to Carrara... arrrrgh. Once THAT exists... I may be willing to take a chance on P5. Otherwise, the hair is useless. question...does anyone know offhand if the cloth room exports? that would be useful... but I don't know if its enough to get me to upgrade.