Hey, those techniques work pretty well, too. Thanks for the picture. I guess the deal with vertex modeler is that you're working at a somewhat more primitive level than you would in some other modelers but you can still get a lot done anyway. Another problem I'm having is every time I go to select something it seems like I end up moving it as well. Is the solution to only use marquee selects? Would a higher rez mouse make any difference? http://www.losthorizonsoftware.com/products/ppex.php has a tracer (although I've had a little trouble getting it working properly without crashing Carrara).