Bikermouse, thanks for the link, I'll go take a look... Erlik, hmmm, hadn't thought of that, above I just give the trunk a volumetric cloud and decreased eveything to '0', I'll try your way, on mapping World space looked ok on some parts of the balustrade and wonky on others, and I'll try the size increase on everything for more shadow definition... Incardine, I tried a light in front but didn't think about enclosing the urn in it, duh...thanks Rayraz, hadn't even considered fakeing GI, well yes I did but I don't really 'get it' fully, but I'll experiment...:) Thanks all, think of anything more let me know...:] Zhann

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