Here is an image (in about a minute) of what I mean (I think we got crossed up (I was saying you'd make one finished object in the vertex modeler)). I think it is pretty self explanatory, and pretty odd looking. I made the odd spline horn in the spline modeler, and then converted it to a vertex object (model room->edit->convert to..). I then lofted from the terrible vertex whatnot to make one mesh (vertex) object. I then used one shader with a texture map over the entire object (you'd have to do something with uvmapper to make a smooth transition in coloring between skin and snake). Don't get me wrong, we do NEED better modelers (i.e. NURBS please), but for now we must make do. Bye-the-by, sorry if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick again. EMC