Hey, thanks to all for feed back on this one and all the preceding. I think with some minor tweaking I am there on the mesh. I am starting on the texture map actually( finding good usable hi rez shots of Mr Macy are quite difficult), I have already stared on the bump map. The long Cheek "dimple" are done with a B-map, neither mike or borus can do that one. Very soon I think I will have my Bill Macy Homunculous ready to do my bidding.(sick Huh?)and then I will move on to Bob Hoskins, Richard Karn ,Tom Seleck, and the grand finale, Sean Connery!!! Never guess I was a movie and tv buff would you. Tony