I think with the 20's dress doing the same (its a biggy with the fur) its most likely an rsr problem.......so go into the pwfw and pw folders and delete any rsr files (you don't need them being on pro pack) and i think that'll fix it.....FYI the RSR is a fast loading version of the obj file so what happens in a normal p4 is it will build a new rsr file but pro pack doesn't use them so it'll just load the obj.....With refernce to message 11 you haven't done anything wrong its just one of posers quirks you learn about here ;o), the ones with rsr's working is just coincidence coz pro pack doesn't look at them anyway ;o).....Steve