My grandmother was a Rochester Institue of Technology trained brush and oils, watercolor, and tempera kind of artist. Her kind of art was quite different from anything that goes on at Renderosity and I would not be surprised if she would have denied that ANYTHING done here would fit her definition of art let alone good or bad art. I know other conventional media artists that would strongly agree. So I think we should stand back from judging our peers so critically. On the other hand, I am sometimes disturbed by the lack of constructive comments. If comments are made on image they are usually just a string of superlatives. I think people are afraid of hurting feelings which is nice but it really isn't very helpful for anyone seeking a learning experience. Of course maybe what this forum is all about is simply a venue for ones work. A place to post some pictures that give us pleasure during the act of creation and which we simply wish to hold up and say "hey, look at this!" And, you know, that's really all right too. As far as piracy.. well I think thats a stretch. It may well be that the renders of a cube with 1 light bulb are all done with pirated software but I paid for my program and I've done my share of mirrored balls and shiny marble infinite planes:) I think I agree with eelie in that I wonder what it is you want to do to "fix" the problems you see. And I also agree that this forum is a microcosm of our society and unless you want to form an exclusive club you're kind of stuck with a great variety of attitudes, talents, and approaches. I suspect that people that really are offended by the sometimes amatuerish work here have all run off to professional societies or some such. Just my two cents... we get a few more and we can order out for pizza!;-) Ed