erm... spanky, I never said that I was a bryce god, my comments were in regards to people who don't know their own ass from a boolean... and you don't learn this program by coming to the bryce forum, you learn it by doing work with it. i looked at your gallery and i recall stating good things about your work, i wouldn't consider you a newbie for instance. but frankly i would categorize your answer more as trolling than as just competition to mine in terms of discussing the issues that i brought forth. drac