The vertex modeler is pretty good it gives me more control when it comes to getting exactly what I want output wise. Although the though part is that it is time consuming, it's like carving a figure out of air!!. But like the saying goes practice makes perfect, they are many ways I probably could of done this in the vertex modeler then conecting the dots. theres only 3 i am comfortable with, and the technique i'm using to flesh out this model are (polyline, add vertex, and extrude) and I tell you what the extrude has been of great help. Anyway I have some time at hand this week, so am keeping my fingers cross that the dragon shall be done by the end of the week or earlier. I am getting married on june 25th (2 Weeks!!), needless to say things tend to get a bit nutty within that time frame. Later folks.