@Michelle - Wooohoooo ... I have printed this thread out and I will be carrying it around with me. Hehehe...when you least expect it ... the sneak "pat". Muahahahaha. >:D Oh wait, need to clear something up. Is this just a pat, or can I throw in a squeeze at the end? You know, I've even been working on a double pat, with a a slightly twirling squeeze too. Decision decisions. @Jordosity - I was going to back you up on that whole shy thing, but I couldn't do it with a straight face. Sorry man. :) That was a cool interview. Gives me more ammunition ... I mean a better insight into the mind of the Jordster shiver. :) -=>Donald