Thanks geo, the collar I think is okay on the original and appears to have been modeled as a seperate mesh. To size the original to fit Mike, I imported into the P5 cloth room, and some wierd things happened, the collar breaking apart being one of them so to keep that from happening, I weld it back. So, that is probably why it looks like it does in these latest pics. Nevertheless, I will keep your thoughts on it in mind, so that we end up with a really nice looking collar for the shirt. Okay, I am knocking off for now. Please keep that feedback rolling in, particularly if you folks see any more areas that need improving. Sort of a pain to go back and do that sort of thing after the shirt is made up. :O)