Ok taken. Now What OS are people running are all the available fixes applied. How much RAM, whats the processor, whos processor, are the drivers certified, Whats vram settings. whats whats whats. Who video card (just to note I had a Nvida G4 then replaced with and ATI 9700, THEN I had rendering issues freaze up, incomplete renders - they just stopped all around rotten. Well anywho at my plant we run a pretty intensive CAM/CAD app and in the process of upgrading to the latest and greatest. In preperation for this we were purchasing new systems. Ran the spec's by the software vendor and the only thing they didn't like was the ATI, seems that user with this card experiencec problems while rendering - HUM! So I pulled the ATI put in the Nvida G4TI and no problems- Now belive me I @#$# Poser for this, @#$@ at CL and cursed the SUN, I knew it wasn't my cool 3.0Ghz system with the 2G RAM, and hot beverage service and bun toaster. OH NO!!! oopps! Rule #1 look inside. Yes I did overstate in my post. The point to be made is Noting is PERFECT - BUT all can be fixed. SO spend less time @$@#$ and more time resolving. Given for some Poser works Great others it STINKS. But instead of complaining and blaming. Put energy in to resolving issues, its better for us all. But then again, as the say in the military the only HAPPY soldier is a B***H'N solder. Or at least - lets start a Bash the Poser VX forum and leave this forum for questions that are seeking answers. ceba Blah-Blah-Blah.