Thanks Diane, I have seen the mesh comparison and there is more thier to work with, thogh the density at the sides of the mouth seem to be what makes her look consistant from charecter to charecter. What you discribe on the body sounds like the good stuff from Eve (who ahas her own problems) and that is very attractive... but I went back to Zygote to make the plunge and all thier damn images are so awefull... the morph samples look like hell. I'm entreaged by what you guys say about facial expressions (I am a painter not a modeler or animator) but Zygote sure does a good job making her look cartoony. Even the eyelashes being so even and straight. Arcady does a good job with her and in the PFO contest the freaky hips and body stuff looks good but the face is pretty consistant from one "charecter" to the other, I wish Metacreations and Zygotte had opted for a more "blank" base face since half the struggle seems to be getting to a nutral starting point (see JAFOs smooth face morph). I wish $60 wasn't such a major expenditure for me, I feel a little funny playing out this big delema in public too. But my wife would be SO angry if she caught me spending $60 on a new doll! I have been tormenting myself about Vickey since I first got into this (Poser was a Birthday preasent to myself in May)... Vickey and Cybermesh (creates mesh from grayscale map) just torture me, I keep hoping people will convince me they are a waste of money once and for all! On the other hand, everytime I screw up my courage to buy Vickey the images at Zygote stop me cold, I get afraid the good Vicky images by you folks are the result of talent I don't have.